This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on Facebook.
Hey, we still have a couple of people joining, but while they are joining, would anyone like to give us a start off today? For fun, for joy, for experimenting, for seeing how it comes through you? No takers? I actually met someone in the shops who sometimes watches us online. I mean, he doesn't really join the group, but he watches on YouTube channel and he had a request. He wanted us to read fragments from Nisargadatta and discuss it. I said, well, it's not exactly a study group. It's not exactly the purpose of the meeting to be a discussion club. But, yeah, if anyone is moved to find a nice little quote and talk about it, we are here to enjoy the pointing.
So whichever shape or form it takes is fine. So long as we stick to the language that we all resonate with, which is a language predominantly used by Bob, who was simplified it in comparison to Nisargadatta. His language was much, much simpler. But Nisargadatta was his teacher. He's not exclusive. He's not excluded. He's totally in it, totally included. And a lot of pointers Bob would bring up exactly quoting verbatim, word to word, just like Nisargadatta pointed them. And Yvonne, would you like to start us off? Yes. The beautiful quote, which we have often quoted is maybe a nice to start with. Does love act deliberately?
That one. Yes. And Nisargadatta says, yes and no. Life is love and love is life. What keeps the body together but love? What is desire but the love of the self? And what is fear but the urge to protect? And what is knowledge but the love of truth? The means and forms may be wrong, but the motive behind is always love. Love of the me and the mine. The me and the mine. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Or may explode and embrace the universe. But love remains. Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's probably my favorite or one of the few favorites. Mine too. Yes.
Yeah. Incredibly loaded, isn't it? Would you like to start unpacking it? Does love act deliberately? Yes and no. Yeah. Love is as it is. It doesn't act. It doesn't act like, um, yeah, it's all spontaneous. You cannot say anything about it. So does it act deliberately? Yeah. You could say yes when it goes according to the plan you wanted it, but there is no plan and it's all spontaneous. And, um, it keeps the body together because there is nothing but love. It's the, um, the energy that keeps everything together. Also the body. When you take the energy off, the body cannot exist anymore. So, and what is desire, but the love of the self, um, yeah, that's the, the one real desire to, to be the self because you are the self.
Mm-hmm. So there is nothing to desire for because you have already. You are already. Whole and complete. And, um, yeah. What do you long for when you are already whole and complete? There is nothing like it. It's just, it's just everything already, uh, whole and complete as it is. So what do you long for? Yeah. You could say, yeah, I long for a nice vacation, but you always take yourself with you and I am on a vacation right now. But. Uh, I only, uh, replaced my body to another place, but I'm always here now and it's always as it is. And I'm at the sea right now and I love the sea and, but, uh, I am always here and there's nowhere else to go.
There's only my body is on a vacation and, uh, yeah. Yeah. And. Yeah. Yeah. The rest of the quote, um, and what is knowledge, but the love of the truth. Yeah. That's the only knowledge to know what you are. Yeah. What knowledge do you need more? Yeah. Maybe the person needs knowledge to go in a certain way or to do a certain profession or both knowledge is being knowing the other being, the knowing and the love. Okay. You don't have to be all what you really are. So there is nothing more to know. Really. Mm-hmm, you know that you exist and that's the point. That's the whole.
Knowing. Yeah. And then nothing lacks. The means and forms may be wrong, but the motive behind is always love. Yeah. Um, everything is love. Even when you kill someone. Yeah. Because that someone goes across your boundaries are. or does something that you are very upset about because you have the love for the self and you want to exist and you can do certain things that it doesn't look like love, but the motive is always love. Love can be very much hidden when you look at it with the eyes of the body, but with the eyes of the self, with the cognizing emptiness, it is always love.
There is nothing else but love and nobody chooses to do this or that. It just happens. So there's always love, nothing other than love. There is nothing else but love. So this is very simple in that way. So love of the me and the mind. Yeah, that's also love of the me and the mind. I want to have... Yeah, rather. A good life than a bad life, but everything is spontaneously arising and changing. So you cannot only have the good things. You also have the bad things. It's one and the other, not one of the other. No choice. Everything is moving and changing. And the me and the mind may be small or may explode and embrace the universe, but love remains.
Yeah. When you see... That there is not really a me and a mind. It's only love. And then it's explosion because it's not bound anymore to a certain person. And when I am not really a person, then you are not a person too. There's only love. When you see through the whole show that there is no one. It's just unfolding. Yeah. One essence appearing as everything, as Hank says. Yes. That's... Yeah. Yeah. That's it. I think it's enough unpacked yet. But I had another nice quote of him, but I don't know if you want to expand on this one. Don't know. I wonder if anyone else would like to add something and then keep the other one.
We're going to go that way. This was really beautiful. That was perfect. You know, it is a loaded quote and you could really actually just study that one. And end the search with this. Because if you, like Hank says, one essence experiencing and expressing, appearing as everything. So that one essence, you can call it love. And then it is the one essence. If it appears as self-gratification, as a pedophilia, as whatever it is, self-gratification, how is it not self-love? It's obviously self-love. It may be causing harm. But again, we've established that. That in the dualistic manifestation, if there was no night, there wouldn't be day.
If there was no pain, there wouldn't be pleasure. So, yes, it appears in a way that might not completely match the ideal of a saint dictated by particular religion or particular society. But it's all inclusive. It's completely unconditional. It is so unconditional that it embraces and it envelops absolutely every manifestation. Including fear of death. Including desire. Including longing. Love longing for itself. Why? Because it gives a shit. The idea that I don't have it, that I am not it. I will get it, attain it, achieve it in the future. I will get into a supreme state, which they write in the books. That is a state of persistent ecstasy or endless pleasure when there is no fear, no sickness, no anger.
Just pleasure. Just pleasant emotions. And I want this. I believe myself to be a person wanting this elevated, supreme, pleasurable state. How is that not love? Filtered through the mind, appearing as desire. But behind the energy that gives life to that contrived idea, to that imagination, is still the same love. It's still. The same life essence. So I would like to invite everyone, if you want to actually unpack any of the aspects of that quotes, any of the consequences. Or perhaps try and dispute it. Argue with it. Show me the manifestation that you don't feel it is the same life or the same love appearing as the other.
And debunk it. Like, you know, the suffering. Psychological suffering. Fear of aging. Fear of loss. Grief. Guilt. Remorse. All that. We could actually unpack every single expression and bring it back to that one essence. And now. Oh, Hank, would you like to jump in? I can't hear you for whatever reason. Is it just me? Does anyone else hear Hank? I don't hear anything, too. No, Hank, you may need to plug the headphones or do something. Maybe. Or join us via mobile phone or laptop. Something else because it didn't. Unfortunately, it didn't. It didn't work. We'd love to hear you, but right now we can't. So try different device, Hank.
Maybe click that Zoom link. We can link on different device. Now you are muted, but you were unmuted and we still couldn't hear a word. Yeah. Just join from a different device. Maybe that will be easier. And I wonder, would anyone else like to elaborate a little bit on that one? Because it's such a beautiful potent quote and yes, the answer, you know, that he gave to the question on love. The answer, which is yes and no. Both and neither. All at once. Does it act deliberately? Is it conscious? When the love of being shows up as the defense mechanism, as fight or flight trauma response?
Is it acting deliberately to preserve life or is it completely spontaneous? Is it completely programmed? Yes and no. And both and neither. Even approaching the topic of that one essence using the duality of mind. Yes or no. Up and down, black and white doesn't really make much sense. Is the wrong tool for a job. But as close as the mind can get to that realization is neither and both. You know, certain love of being. Does it actually? Is it premeditated? Yes. Is it premeditated? And if it is premeditated, in which way? What does even acting deliberately mean? Is it an entity in contradiction or in communion or in relationship to the world or to myself or to anything else?
Can it even be in any sort of a relationship if it is one with everything? If it is an everything? Yes. Yes. And everything. And yet we can see that movement. So is that movement in stillness? Is that flow of energy appearing as the universe, appearing as a dream? Is it deliberate or is it spontaneous or is it both? Or is it neither? And I can see you, Cornelius, you on and I can see also Hank joining from another device. I'm sorry. Can you repeat the quote? I missed it. Oh, okay. Yvonne, could you read it again? Yes. Does love act deliberately? Yes and no.
Life is love and love is life. What keeps the body together but love? What is desire but love of the self? What is fear but the urge to protect? And what is knowledge but the love of truth? The means and forms may be wrong but the motive behind is always love. Love of the me and the mine. The me and the mine may be small or may explode and embrace the universe but love remains. Thank you. Cornelius, would you like to build up on it or dispute it or show examples or elaborate or simplify or say anything to it or later? Well. Well, I can't dispute it but there seems to be a tendency here to jump over all the words and just go, well, a pile of shit and a pile of gold are the same because they appear in consciousness as whatever they are.
So, hell and heaven. They're the same as they appear in consciousness. There's no difference. It's just stuff. It's just the appearance. So, yeah, it's ultimately is it like love that makes it all manifest? I don't know. Is it love that makes the apparent me be interested in any of it? Perhaps initially? I don't know. But whatever we say, as Ivan said, whatever we can name, it's love. The love of being. The love of naked children. The love of gore and blood and darkness. The love of a sunny day. The love of money to buy cool stuff. The love of peace and quiet. The love of going out to rock and drink all night.
It's all. just, it all just what it is. It's all just what it is. There's no, there's no difference to the cognizing emptiness. That's what I'd say. Yeah, absolutely. Can't argue with that. You know, like the word love, if you only have one, it doesn't even need the word. But love is as good as any love of being everything loves to be including grief, pain and a cow shit is like, is there? Or is it really? It's appearing to be. That's good enough. It's experienced. And Yvonne says all the same and different at the same time. Yep. And we have Hank. Hank, try see if we can hear you.
You got to unmute. Hello? Yeah. Yes, yes. We can hear you. Wonderful. Yeah, I'm using my mobile phone. I wanted to say a little bit already. What was I saying? Yeah. The thing is that, you know, love is, yeah, I have to say, it can expect the essence of love, you know, love, the, one essence, one essence is appearing as everything. But the difficulty that, you know, is, of course, that, you know, the, when it, when it is, when it is like, I have to say, we for misformed, misformed, or it's going in, in a way that, that, you know, it causes a lot of suffering and pain.
Like what we see in the, in the world also, the, the wars, you know, and all the all the suffering caused by, by, you know, by misunderstanding or by dictators, or like Trump, or whatever. And, you know, then, then, that is hard to, hard to reconcile that. Ultimately, maybe it may be the same, but it's, it is something that you know the the essence is maybe love but the result is yeah very destructive and love is uh something that should be you know how to say uh positive or yeah how to say it should be associated with this happiness you know so is it actually the same love you know when we talk about one one essence like electricity does electricity you know electricity used or to burn it so it is neither positive nor negative see that is why the the love as a word is questionable because and I love the way Bob was pointing out to it he says oh the way we think about love is oh I love my wife but the beach refused me this morning so I hate her love hate opposites this is not unconditional love this is conditioned pleasure called love is pleasant when people are kind to each other it's pleasant when people assist each other it's pleasant when people sacrifice ants mosquitoes and other forms of life we don't give a about that because we only love humans we love ourselves we identify as humans and we call love what pleases us and what doesn't please us we call something else than love that is not what Nisargadatta is pointing to non-duality about that which is beyond good and bad beyond pleasure and pain beyond the love that is associated with kindness and it's an opposite to hatred is opposite this love does not opposite.
This is love of being, including love of being at war, love of experiencing nightmare, being love of thunderstorm as much as the sunny day. This is unconditional love, not only that love, which gives me pleasure, and my enemies pain. In non duality context, this is not love. This is a joke. This is a blasphemy to call love something that pleases me and doesn't please others that I don't like. That's not love. Unconditional love is the love that embraces day and night winter and summer pleasure and pain, joy and sadness, guilt and pride and all of it. And yes, in the human dream, in the experience of life on Earth, there is aging, there is sickness, there is loss, there is shame, there is grief, there is identity, there is preference for pleasure, all of that.
And love of being allows all of it unconditionally. And the preference of course, for the world to be at peace. You know, imagine the preference Imagine the world of being at peace. For over for a century. What peace is that is only a piece in the small definition of the human race. That doesn't apply to polar bears that were pushed away from their inhabitants so that humans can take over. What sort of peace is that there is, you know, there is a piece that passes all understanding. It passes the mind. That is what we talk about. The piece in which mind says, I like this, I don't like this.
I don't mind the fish being exploited. I don't mind the animals being tortured. But I want children to be safe. That's not love. That's not peace. That's that's self obsession. Because I am human, I'm superior. I want humans to be okay. I don't give a shit about anyone else. That's not love. that's not peace. What non-duality is bringing into the table is the love and the peace that is beyond divisions, that allows everything equally, allows the suffering too. Without suffering there's no compassion and there is no joy and there is no liberation and there is no freedom. There is a greater wisdom in the way the universe organizes itself in that polarity so the love of being can actually be reflected, can be acknowledged, can be experienced as, ah, there is an existence and it is, yes, sometimes it's cold, sometimes it's warm.
If there was no existence there would be no cold and no warm, there would be no discomfort and no compassion. But because there is existence there is all of it. But the individual, I think the individual, the person is not, is no longer, doesn't really matter, you know. We as individuals, I mean, if we just surrender to nature or we arrive at some kind of survival of the fittest, you know, like that, like Darwin always said. I'm sure, I'm sure. already not even that not even even closer even simpler even simpler we don't oh I don't count you know it's only the whole planet that counts that's contriving that's believing adopting a belief how about laying down all the concepts okay I as individual I don't matter or I as individual I have to surrender for a greater good or I ask and all those philosophies just lay them down and say I don't know no concept no idea no philosophy this moment no past no future no concept of it should be different it could be different it would be different only if if Trump wasn't in power this would be bad blah blah blah blah blah blah blah endless endless minds you of simpler than that prior than that is this luminous existence is the presence of consciousness without which no politics are possible no religions no suffering no pain no longing for love no longing for peace could even exist so this is closer to your heart than the most elevated ideals about equality and peace and love and connection and closer is first without it those ideals couldn't even exist couldn't even be entertained that's what we are pointing to that is prior to thinking and it's beating your heart is already here and in it everything is included but the stories are not more important than the miraculousness of the consciousness of the presence the stories are just the shadows they are shadow pictures on the walls well the fire aliveness is first is here yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah thank you thank you and you are welcome in the next class bye bye And Yvonne says, difficult is a concept too.
Back off and look again. Love of trauma or ADHD all included. Yes, yes. Back off and look again. Just step, step out of that movie, of that drama and see the greater picture. You know, they say sometimes I think Bhadra Vajita is talking about having the helicopter view. Look from the bird's eye over the whole battlefield. See how everything good and bad, pleasant and painful is happening because you are. It's happening in consciousness. Because you think, I mean, because you exist, you can imagine those things. You can remember those things. You can project those things. So the love of being appearing as the pure consciousness.
And then, of course, you know, something appears on that screen. And what appears on that screen may be unpleasant according to the character on the screen that appears on the screen. You know, you watch the movie and the character is being chased by the beast or the character is looking and judging other characters or the world or the nature. That is all the shadow picture. That is all the content. That is all the content. That is all the appearance on the screen. And it's only there because the love of being appearing as life itself is already present. And then expectations may show up that, OK, so if everything is love, there should be no pain, no anger, no old age, no fear.
What is this? What is this? And when Yvonne was quoting Nisargadatta, he said this. But why? Because she thinks she's a查 and she believes that the invalue of começings lies only in theіє which is the connections between life and suffering. This limits all of life, and theyoglo, I took all my life to this stage that my playing every moment. So that's why I wanted to speak to you & you to reflect a little bit in these scenes because I only consider the the собственно or the composure we carry in the life that's very dispose from all of us experience like, well, you know, I used to play football with my partner for fun.
I used to play catch-ball with my sister. protection which is love of being which is loving care it couldn't have shown up if someone didn't offend me or slap me in the face so it still is that that that love of being appearing as other or fear would i give a about being killed or being tortured or being humiliated if there was no care if there was no love of being if there was no loving care so all those polarities only appear because the aliveness the love of being is here if that love of being is compromised and it was beautiful when nisargadatta in that quote also included that which seems to be an impediment of the realization he included seeking he included seeking looking seeking looking for wisdom reading books going to satsangs wanting what is not even that even the seeking mind which actively rejects this moment as it is and it says not this i want something else i want that imagined state of supreme pleasure of supreme ecstasy bliss cosmic union or joining even that is love filtered through that lens of mind lens of perception which basically divides the world that i don't give a shit about all of you i'm only preoccupied with me this is what mind is so i only want this for me i don't care about you know i want a cosmic union because it's going to be pleasant for me of course of course it it justifies it in in more poetic words it says no my heart is swelling with the love and longing for god and the respite and whatever the words but generally rejection of this moment as it shows up right now and trying to exchange that unborn buddha mind that miraculousness overlooking it and exchanging it for the imagined better now imagined better now imagined better now enlightened state is still included it is still a love of being just filtered through that biocomputer which translates it to the divided self-preoccupation you know mind itself is the device which basically manipulates the whole environment to take the advantage for itself to present itself to the whole environment to take the advantage for itself to present itself to the present itself to the only true self only it yourselves our own is the self itself itself so each one of the race is t and then you talk to the null and you talk with the inside turned off in another way then what comes around is happening is when you go through all you staying the way the are calling i have been your first put yourself out to zerf self meaning the the vehicle the vessel it's like you know you have a car and you go for the to the supermarket and you are praying to the to the parking ferry to get the good spot all there is a good spot but someone else is also going for that spot am gonna be first i'm gonna go faster for me that's how the machine works it is it's kind of like phi is like null and the machine is hushing her suckers and she went away nothing good or bad about it if you look at the animals survival of the fetus like you said hank no one does it and yet the fittest animal will be the animal which will find the partner the peacock with the most beautiful feathers with the biggest tail that's the one that is going to win the race unfair well it is what it is and it is the love of being it's it's beautifully simple and elegant if you actually see what that quotes that that beautiful few lines of texts bring back how it collapsed the whole mind with all its dualities to one simple original cause being the love of being the whole survival love of being the fear love for protection the taking for wisdom love for knowledge or love for completeness is always love just known directly without translating it through that through the lens of the mind it's just this doesn't need words recognized directly it's just appreciated as this wow mystery nothing to say about it you could write a hymn or poetry or paint the painting but it doesn't need anything it's just this moment ever fresh all included if the images seeing sounds taste smells whatever the content is appearing in it is included including the imagination that's included too and desires and fears and all of it so pointing out to that direct knowing Blazhenka would you like to unmute yeah just a quick one um you know what came there is neither good or bad just the thinking makes it so there you go just what's appearing and the body will do but what he will do I just got beaten by mosquito if I found it I would smash it um because I don't like being beaten by them but if it was any other bug I probably took it outside but mosquito not first I can't take it outside yeah then that's it that's just the reaction of the of the body it is what it is but if I would start thinking about it all year it would be oh that's wrong thing to do that's the right thing to do that could be this it could be that but I have another quote that I am from the sagadata that I just said yesterday so see gee what gee want me to read it go for it so it was one of from his book prior to consciousness so the question was am I to identify myself with consciousness and the answer was what is this you other than consciousness are they two there is no entity who can do anything in the world there is no entity who can do any spiritual search if there is no entity there there is no bondage there is no liberation just understand this there is nothing to be done whatever I am telling you here it and let it go before you acquire this body and this sense of presence tell me what have you done there is no entity who can do any spiritual search if there is no entity no bondage and no liberation soul mind or ego are just mere words they are no entities of any kind consciousness is the only truth soul and god are only mental conceptions yeah yeah it's very simple very beautiful yeah that's it and the mind was like no it must be something it must be more i need to do something just detecting what it is yeah just perfect as it is yeah yeah yeah yeah beautiful it's a bit it's a bit it's a bit worthy but it's beautiful it just shows up that in that oneness mind can design so many different labels you know it's the god is the soul is this it's entity is doing it's not blah blah but hey it's just this it's just this one yeah thank you and i think yvonne has another quote also but i would like dino would you like to unmute and contribute to the chat i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry jennyji says um uh such a joy to bathe in the passion and clarity of your words cat while sitting on a beautiful sailboat in the mediterranean where i where i have been both an observer and an actor in the movie of life where the mind is the cloud that covers the sun of life and the peace that is beyond understanding when letting be what is as is перед people whether and all love Wow Wow you you one lucky beloved of the spirit to have those adventures not that any other now in any other form is less than perfect but yeah Wow beautiful how poetically said I'm gonna just but in quickly and not enough wind not enough wind to be on own sailor only but here we go and hang on just you sail boats in the distance and the island Wow and I thought I've just wanted to at least come on and say hi you that you've been with me in my heart and during this whole trip and I've been thinking so much of all of you and then it goes Tuesdays and Thursdays but I'm happy happy that I can bring it with me and that I survive without twice a week doses that uh uh what shall I say that well you know what I mean yeah that it in light and then shine and in everything wow the big thing is just to remind myself of to let everything be like Bob used to say unaltered unmodified unchanged and to know that also to allow whatever comes within the human self if there's sadness if there's joy if there's frustration not to judge but to just to let that is like the wind and the waves like change like the wind and the waves like I cannot control those I cannot control anything else either and that's what I wanted to share and I don't know how long I will be have still connection but I just wanted to at least say say hi to you big love wow thank you this is beautiful and wow what an incredible pointing you know the sky above you the space the the water the the clouds the sunlight of a spirit everything it's just yeah yeah yes everything's the pointer and leaving everything yes everything is a pointer and you know it has been rain it has been cloudy we've had thunderstorms it has been the whole you know shebang and just to be reminded of that we can not do anything about it it just is as is as long as it is as it is and then it changes so uh yeah so now I I go off with my summer again and I just send much love to all oh wow and I'll just say how precious it is you know that you are in such Paradise on such incredible Adventure and you still show up here and share that joy with us that's really beautiful oh thank you no I so wanted to but the timing has been so hasn't really been it hasn't it hasn't worked so far and now I I changed uh being the ship's cook like from today and was it yesterday so therefore I could join you wow so uh big love thank you wow okay oh okay let me see oh sorry I have to find Sue again okay so I wonder Yvonne would you like to get your other quote or anyone else would like to elaborate on anything that was brought up up until now are you on ivan yes the ordinary man is afraid to die because he is afraid of change the yani is not afraid because his mind is dead already there is no change in it and no death death appears to be a change in time and space where there is neither time nor space how can there be that the yani is already dead to name and shape yeah yeah and it is very often those conversations and the answer question answers conversation with the sages you know there is a presumed division that i am djani and i know and you are not you gotta learn you gotta get there you gotta understand it you gotta you know and then in the conversation i tell you how i feel and you see how you make yourself fake it till you make it even using the words i'm djani and you are not are well they're pointers yeah but they're just words yeah but he has to use the words to make this understood to make it clear what he meant so what is in this context what is it it is not the person in on a brown skin little guy who has realized what you have not no because that person is gonna die is dead so it is not he wasn't talking about nisargadatta body mind about this guy called born as whatever his name was maruti or something it wasn't that that he calls niani it was something that does that wasn't born and doesn't die what wasn't born and doesn't die not the body the body's dead died of cancer not the mind the mind is inactive right now doesn't speak so the pointer when this type of vocabulary is used it is yes the vocabulary is necessary the words are unnecessary to communicate but there is something they're point to that is completely beyond language what is dnyani in that it is like you know the translation would say it is a man of wisdom but is it really a man oh you know they say dnyana is wisdom or is or is knowing or whatever is the translation of it but when you say knowing does it mean it is me knowing or is just knowing so it really points out to that space like pure clear luminous awareness that have never been born that is pure potentiality that's not gonna die it's already dead it's not even alive what's alive what comes into existence and goes out of the existence is not it and now looking at your own direct experience you refer to what is it in right here right now that is coming and going that is appearing and disappearing the thoughts coming and going the body changing all the time but what is there prior to the body changing prior to the thoughts feelings emotions expressions perceptions concepts past future what is it that is there always here always present never present and never back and forth and it is a man of wisdom and is only being and is only born never dies is that afraid of dying is that preoccupied with anything does that have the preference for particular expression of love to be up to be arising because if it is that's another appearance well is it here that is always here is already free timeless spaceless bodiless mindless pure knowing pure being without any shape and form prior to giving itself to the divine being and the divine being is the one who is the one who is the one who is giving itself a shape and a form prior to encapsulating itself in a concept putting itself in a cage of concept I am this anyone any insights any pointers any um elaborations you know those those those words those ideas cornelli's yuan you said Cosmic Union before as though that was something to strive for that's kind of funny like as if there could be anything other than cosmic union outside of that.
The other thing was, um, I love that idea that there's no one to do anything. Nothing can be done. There's nobody that can change anything or make anything. And that your idea of, of you as being a person is a bunch of concepts. And as we're often told that the thought's not the thing, like the water's not, you can't, the, the word, you can't drink the word and you can't, um, fire. The word fire can't burn you, blah, blah, all that. The word person can't do anything. That it becomes, um, apparently a habit. It seems, uh, I can't use the joining words because they relate to some sort of pastime.
I can't use the joining words because they relate to some sort of pastime. And if I'm to speak truly clearly, there's nowhere to go because it's now. And that's the whole point. That's the whole point. It's difficult to, um, say that, but it's really the whole point that the attention to the substratum, the what, the, the cognizing emptiness, the Rigpa, it's, that's it. Like everything else is fluff. Everything else is birds flying past and movies projected onto clouds that don't last. And until I'm not, this is where, this is where it gets hard to say it's like, okay, until I'm not distracted by what I think is real, until I'm not distracted by, what I think is real, then I'm still concerned with what is not real.
That the real is just this just now. And it doesn't move and time doesn't pass. It doesn't go anywhere. Nothing's changing. It's just now it seems, um, kind of overblown and pompous to claim that, but that's, that's actually the direct experience. And every time you check, well, there it is. Um, yeah. Uh, and it's all unfolding automatically as Bob said, oh, it's all on autopilot. And that's, that seems to be a concept that's hard to wrap the busy mind around. Uh, that still say, oh, come on, but I'm sort of responsible for that. So, well, no, you're not, cause there's no you and there's no responsibility and there's no passing time and nothing's happening.
Um, and from like the bird's eye view of the battlefield, that, um, if anything's happening and you get a view of it, it's all kind of taking care of itself automatically. Even the total extermination of the human creatures in this particular story that we seem to, share like the consensus reality, uh, if they're causing too much damage, the, the planet will sort of like snuff them out with a snuff themselves out. Uh, and that'll be the end of it for another four and a half billion years. It is it all, maybe it all just all grows back. Nice, quiet jungle forest kind of stuff without us and our machines and factories and making so much noise.
Yeah. I like what you said is it will be difficult to quote, but I really liked it until I'm no longer distracted by what I'm distracted by. It was cool. Then of course, yes, the illusion holds the grip. That's yeah. But there is always underlying something registering the distractions that is completely free. That is registering. That is knowing that is, uh, completely free. And Yvonne, you, you are on. Yes. Um, that Nisakadatta is talking about, uh, the Yanni's mind is dead already. Yeah. I liked it. Uh, that, that's a mind who is always talking in the pairs of opposites and is never satisfied with anything.
And says always, um, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, and that mind is quiet and it, it just does his thing when, when it needs to, and not only, um, talks all the time. Then, uh, then there's the peace beyond all understanding because then, um, yeah, then it's then dead is record. Then that is it. Then you are dead without all the blah, blah, blah, blah. In between you can be dead of you can recognize it. Yeah. I like that. The mind, that is already dead. Yes. I liked that too. From that quote, I only have those two quotes on my mobile in a present print.
Those two, I like, but, um, the mind is dead already. I liked it. Yes, because that seems to be the hard thing to be quiet. Yeah. Yeah. And it, and it, it seems to, it kind of is believed that it is necessary, but if you realize that you are not your mind, then whether, whether the mind is singing the song or whether the mind is commenting or whether the mind is doing whatever it is already dead, it borrows the energy, that electricity that makes that computer run, but the computer is no, not alive at all. It is dead. It runs on the borrowed power, the power that is borrowed from that omnipotence.
And then, so, so it says, okay, Jana is the, is the great wisdom and Johnny is that which realized, uh, the great wisdom, which realized that the mind is dead. So what kind of stops you from realizing that the mind is dead and therefore realizing that Jana is already available right now. And Johnny is just a label that differentiate that who realized that the, the body mind in which that wisdom has been realized. And it's like stepping in your own shadow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Realizing that the mind is dead, that the mind is just a mechanical behavior pattern is just a software narrating, doing whatever it is, whatever it is designed to do.
It doesn't have, you know, the difference again between someone believing to be the mind. I am my mind. This is who I am. I am my most, cherished values. I am my personality. This is my life. Don't kill me. This is the most precious thing. This is who I am. This is what I am. That belief appears as reality. It feels real. Same as if I believe in a fairy tooth fairy or, or in Jesus, that is the reality. Jesus is here. He's whispering to my ear or the monster under the bed. It appears real. Does it? It doesn't really make it real. The belief.
And what is the difference? Really? You know, like when there is a belief arising through this body mind, the deers is flat. The experience will follow up and that's it. There is no liberation. That's it. The dream character is condemned forever to be the person who is going to die. That's it. No hope. But are you this person? Are you this mind believing itself to be alive? What's wrong with right now? If you don't think about it, are you still here? If you don't think about it, are you still here when the mind is paused for a microsecond? Because if you are, then the natural realization is that the mind appears in you.
Mind appears because of you. And as we all may know, a little baby is born without that mind. And it's alive, it's conscious. And the mind comes slowly, slowly being programmed in little by little. And that mind is keep being programmed little by little. Traumas got resolved or got strengthened. Yvonne, do you have the hand up because you wanted to add something or because you didn't put the hand down? I wonder. Okay, the hand is down. I'm trying to eat, I have lunch. I'm trying to eat in between. But I didn't put it down, sorry. Oh, yeah, bon appetit. Cornelius, you want? Along the same lines, death, to speak of death, the mind is dead.
For the nyani, the mind is dead. I was reading some Ramana Maharshi and he speaks of the nyani. The nyani is like when we go to sleep. It's undeniable that we're still alive. But the circus isn't happening. There's no person. There's no world. There's no world in sleep. And so he speaks of the nyani as being like wakeful sleep. He's still alive and walking around and stuff still going on. But to him, it's like you have to let go of all that to actually fall asleep. When you fall asleep, all that falls away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you try and force yourself, well, apart from having an anesthetic, but if you try and force yourself to go to sleep, often you won't be able to go to sleep.
Is this like you'll never arrive at enlightenment while you're still arriving for enlightenment because the actual search for enlightenment stops you from seeing that right now this is where it's at. This is it. That you fall. You fall asleep. It's quite a gentle thing to just let the world. Well, the story that says the mother has a baby and she adores this thing more than anything else in the whole world and she would kill to protect it. But every single night she forgets all about it and falls asleep. I really like this idea. You can just forget all about Cornelius. And that whole thing. And that whole, that whole spiel of Cornelius is just a spiel that there's nothing to it.
There's no substance to it. Just this, this, this thing going on now. And like it can be described and labeled and categorized as some sort of stuff. But where's it happening to? Who's it happening to? It's just like this. And this is it. And Yvonne's eating her lunch and Jenny's on a boat somewhere. And you guys are in Melbourne. And apparently this is France. It looks just like a little room. Okay. I just fell off the boat. So yeah. Sleep seems a more gentle way of, oh, that's, that's what he was saying. We give the primacy to the, to the waking state and these states waking, dreaming and deep sleep.
We give primacy to waking as a during the day. That's the important bit where you're actually, where you're actually awake. There's where the stuff's going on. He says, what if? What if the most important part of your life is actually when you sleep, that's kind of like closer to reality than going to work and being busy and relating to people and talking and doing all the stuff we apparently fill our days with that. It's actually more like just being sort of comfortably floating in darkness with nothing going on and nobody telling you any stories. Occasionally a dream floats past, but it's not very substantial. And it's gone.
Pretty quickly. But yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Coming back to the natural state out of being immersed in the projection, immersed in the, in the entertainment system, the story of me and my relationship with the world and my enemies and my friends and my ambitions and my desires and my future and my death and my sicknesses. Wow. And then all gone back into the eternity of nothingness because there is no time. Time is mind. When the mind is offline, there is no time. Yeah, that's a lovely reminder. Every night when you go to sleep, the computer goes offline. It goes into a sleep mode. And yet there is an existence just unacknowledged.
There's nothing wrong. There's no one who is afraid of going to sleep. Like the mind is afraid of dying. Dies every night, every single night. And it loves it. Especially if people have insomnia, you know, having one good night's sleep. Oh, they have a partner who snoring, which is the same almost. Anyway, it's a lovely. Reminder that. It's nothing wrong. In falling asleep, getting the mind offline, forgetting about the pain, the chronic illness, the the unpaid bills, the dramas, the traumas, the ten thousand things that are projected on the screen of awareness as my story, my problems, humanity problems, suffering, people in dying in concentration camps, the.
Extinction of the of the creatures. All of that offline and nothing is wrong. I'm having a card of a beautiful sailing, just looking at me from the box of the ocean and the sunset, and that one talks. Incidentally, though, because that's another quote that Bob used to love of Nisargadatta. The concept of karma. It talks about the concept concept of karma. Recognize that karma always happening to me, always about me. Cause and effect points out that effect being psychological suffering is caused by belief in a separate me without belief in a reference point. All karma is resolved. If there is no me. Who's karma? Karmic deaths and all the.
And fear of needing seven lifetimes to pay off my bad karma. And all the consoling explanation that, oh, yes, I'm marrying the same, you know, woman who is abusive or whatever, because I have a karma or karma being a habit. You know, I had a bad childhood. Therefore, I'm repeating the same karma. Where is it? Where is the conditioning? Where is karma? If there is no reference point that it would be applied to. Again, it's not entirely unhelpful concept in many schools of thoughts and teachings, but we are pointing beyond the concepts. Cornelius, you want to? Yes. I want to tell you a story, right?
Someone asked Ramana again. They said, so when I when I awaken, will all my karma be resolved? Even the, you know, the different types of karma, like the karma you brought with you, the karma that you're going through now and the karma that you're accruing for the future. When I get enlightened, will all that karma be gone? And Rama said, he told the story of if there's a man and he's got three wives, when he dies, all the wives are widows. It's not like just the first wife is a widow and the other two are still sort of being his wife. I thought that was a good one.
When, as you said, when there's no reference point, when there's no sacred thought of me, when that's not there anymore, well, then, oh, that blob of nothingness didn't accrue any apparent karma. So that was my little story. You got. Yeah, that's that. That settles it. And Dino, would you like to read what we haven't read and summarize maybe or add something, contribute something? Blazhenka said earlier, always wanting what is not. And Yvonne just said it before, nothing wrong by killing the partner if it happens. It's going to die. It's going to die anyway. And yeah, like what you're saying, like you, you eliminate the fictional cause, which is me, and then what's the effect?
Where's the effect? There's no this is the fictional cause, causation, causing, causing entity like that's fictitious. So what effect can there be? Yeah. And they may still be, you know, if you look at the machine, you know, the karma of a car. If you drive over a nail and the tire is broken, we could call it karma. You know, the nail and the tire. But again, is it really? If you weren't driving around there, there would be no karma. If there was no road there, there would be no karma. If you didn't have a car, there would be no karma. If the sun. Wasn't shining, there would be no karma.
If there was an ice age, there would be no karma. So is it really a singular cause, singular effect, sort of a dynamic? Never. The only exception is if that is related to a me, which doesn't have any existence, if you look. But the cause and effect for the machine. Yes. If you drive over the nail, the consequences are the cause and effect. And if you can't drive, if you can't drive, you're not really a cause and effect. You're a cause and effect. You're a cause and effect. And that's a normal thing called Karma, that this is a cause and this is effect. And if I can't drive, I'll keep my car scratched.
And that's the karma. Not really. That pointer is largely overused to actually debunk all statements of Advaita Vedanta. the medicine is the cause and effect is finding the symptom and responding with the remedy this is not exactly where the karma lodges for the karma there has to be singular cause and singular effect there's no such thing in the universe which is one fabric there is not two the cause and effect are one just like the 10 000 things that bring them together and i think well yvonne sums it up as well by uh cause and effect is time which does not exist there you go yeah yes i sometimes hear the the you know the discussions and the metaphors like what you mean there's no cause and effect if i break the leg yesterday and today i'm in plaster the that's the plaster is the effect of breaking a leg no plaster is the effect of the whole entire universe again if you didn't have the leg there could be no plaster this is not just breaking it is the rest of the universe contributing to it also is the inseparability of the whole appearance interdependence of the whole appearance everything co-arising being one in essence and appearing as the ten thousand things i think there's more comments coming yes and the plastic can be out of stock yeah yeah but those are all all those ideas are beautiful expressions of that one essence which is love of being and they all have its place and they all may be helpful or bringing some relief at some point or the other you know if you imagine 150 years ago you know statistically 60 or 70 percent of of young children wouldn't make it to the age of six uh pretty tough you know for for some families uh one child would make it for another family zero would make it so the concept of karma the concept of our you know maybe things weren't that good in the past lives brings a little bit of peace and relief is same as the idea of heaven and hell don't you worry you meet your mother in the in in this good place where god has plenty of rooms or mansions you know that's sort of ideas they have their place within the dream for the dream characters and they are expression of that same one light or one love of being and they are to be appreciated but if you see them for what they are they can be appreciated even deeper you see the love behind it you see that warmth and consolation that it brings the love behind it rather than being a slave a believer a fanatic who thinks oh yes i am my mind and i know this is the truth there is a freedom in appreciation the ideas for what they are ideas and recognizing the life the love behind those ideas and seeing the whole battlefield you see that i have another one which is a little bit more rough weather and it says if the whole planet explodes to dust now there won't be a particle missing from the totality not a happy thought it is always and ever the content of space and it shows those little figurines made of a content of space and the beautiful dark sky and houses in my hometown in poland picture was taken there so a happy thought nothing's ever missing even if the whole planet burst explodes to dust so all your loved ones to be met in the afterlife all the trees that are burned or or animals that are extinct so cells of the body of the skin or the hair that fell away Nothing's ever missing.
Yes. The cat is talking to me. Nothing's ever lost because it is the energy. It can change form, but it doesn't die. It doesn't go anywhere. And nope, we don't have anyone commenting. We have a few people watching us on Facebook, but no one asks questions. And did I see you even having the hand up or was I dreaming it? I was dreaming it. I think you're dreaming it because I don't see your hand. Okay. Okay. I saw the yellow flash. Okay. Dino, do you have anything? There is no hand. You know, like you're saying, like it's all imagined or they're all ideas. Like this whole manifestation, this universe and multiverses and everything, it's like these ideas.
Constructs like all mental constructs, like society, morality, the legal system, like science, like physics and chemistry, biology. Like they're all systems, but they're all ideas and they're all based in, you know, and all of them are trying to perhaps provide the explanation on what this is. And yet they all exist. Yes. And yet they all appear in this presence. So they're all like part of the same ideas that are trying to describe the actuality or the reality. It's like they're all fictitious, like cartoon, like little entities trying to describe, like little cartoon characters trying to describe their role in the show. And yet they've been drawn.
You know, they've been sketched. They're actually just like whimsical little ideas. And all those ideas, I think Cornelius brought up the part of sleeping, you know, deep falling asleep and trying to fall asleep. And I think it's interesting that, you know, everyone's tried to catch the moment when they fall asleep. You know, trying to catch that moment, trying to, you can either try to resist it or fight it, or you can do anything you like. But if you notice, if you notice really carefully, sleep just takes over. There's no one that has ever been able to really control that moment of sleep happening. Sleep's, it's a really good little point of, it's like noticing the breathing, you know, and noticing the automation of the breathing, the automation of sleep, and the change of state from wake to sleep.
It's like, and waking back up again. And how that all, how that all is this incredible automatic process that no one is doing. No one, no one can, there's no control. There's no one to control it. And it's actually just happening all itself as part of the appearance. And it's another idea. It's actually another idea. You know, and even coming to non-duality, you know, you may be coming to non-duality as a person watching a Zoom, listening. And all of that is an idea too. Thinking that maybe I'll get it. Maybe this will resonate. Maybe I breathe and I relax. And all ideas, all equal ideas, all part of the same appearance, appearing in this particular manner or that particular manner.
But I think that the greatest, you know, the core of the, all these ideas is back to that me, myself and I business, you know. And I am the centre of this universe. And, you know, I'm getting this or I understand that. And, you know, the biggest fallacy of all these ideas is not to look at all these ideas and say, oh, they're all unreal. The looker, the one that's thinking that they're seeing ideas is an idea themselves. And, you know, and all dream material, all appearing as ideas, all appearing as imagination or projection. Or you can describe it in many different ways. And why does it all appear?
You know, back to the very beginning was, you know, the love of being. The love of being expressing itself through all these endless ideas. And yeah, it's quite, it's quite, yeah. Sometimes even the love of being is even too much. It's like, it's just this thisness, just this immediate nowness. In which there is nothing like, like you described at the start, Kat. There's nothing you can say about it. There's nothing you can know about it. The knowing is the knowing that it is. That's all the knowing that really is. Not a, not a, a knowing of an object, but just the known fact of existence itself.
Aliveness itself, life itself, the life essence. But what you can say about it is ideas. Yeah, that's, that's beautiful. And as, as you were describing, I actually looked at what was the next card in, in my box. And I just saw the first word. I didn't read the whole thing because again, just the first word as you were describing. Is the word a thing? Is the map the territory? Is the idea of what I am, who I am, what it is, ever going to describe and capture and even touch the mystery of existence? Is it going to, is any word ever going to come near the complete unexplainable radiance of, of, of, of presence?
I think that is a... Yeah, and Yvonne says, it's all about nothing, but isn't it lovely? Exactly. And Bob would say, it's not exactly nothing, but it is a no thing. So it is a lovely no thing, no thingness. It isn't a thing. And yet it isn't nothing. Nothing is unimaginable, is completely incomprehensible. There is aliveness, there is this loveliness, there is this celebration, there is an existence, there is a radiant awareness of being alive, of existing. And everybody shares that. There is no one who does not know that, yes, I am. There is existence. And because I am, woof, all those channels of expression, the seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the touching, smelling, the dreaming, the imagining, the dramas, the problems, the traumas, all of it, because of the existence.
How could any description ever fit that, which is beyond that on which the descriptions are just appearing as words? How can the mystery ever be even the attempt of describing or murdering or encapsulating that no thingness that envelopes every single thing conceivable and perceivable? And yet, you know, here it is, right in front of you, to marvel. To celebrate, to appreciate. What else? To love, to just enjoy. And Yvonne, are you on? Yes, that's why I wrote it with a capital N, nothing. That's why I broke with a capital N, because of the no thing and not of the nothing. So that's what I meant.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's it. The no thing. It's not a thing. And I think there is one more comment. Dino, can you see it? Yeah, Jenny says, In the nowness there is no room for me, myself and I. And if, of course, that too can be dissected by, and of course that can be dissected by the mind. And she's sorry for the typos. It's choppy on the Mediterranean, you see. And Birod says, Not a question, but a compliment. Wanted to thank someone from Poland for these made in Poland, sesame thins lighting up our home. Bob loved them too. Oh. Yeah. You like them, Dino, as well, don't you?
That the sesame stuff. Oh, yes. Yes, we had them as well growing up. I think he's provided us a link to buy them online. Oh, yeah. I used to buy them. I used to buy them for Bob. Yeah, they're beautiful. Yvonne? I think they have them in Kohl's and they're Polish sesame thingies. They're not entirely healthy, but they're yummy. Yeah. So I will just maybe finish that quote that kind of inspired what you were saying, Dino. And I was just hanging out here in front. I wasn't even looking for it. So is the word a thing? Can the word water make you wet? Can you drink it?
That word? Well, clearly, obviously, that's the rhetorical question. How about the word I or me? Is that who you are? And see that this is a loaded question. See that sense of existence, which translates as a word I, a thought me, me, myself and I. See if that comes even close to touching the mystery of consciousness. It's a joke, isn't it? To even try and call it and say I. And what is that I? What is behind it? What does it represent? Does it represent the line of concepts and mental projections? That couldn't even be there if that machine, if the power was off, if that was a corpse, it couldn't even be there.
The idea that I'm unworthy or I'm worthy or I'm Jnani or whatever. It couldn't even be here. If not for that mystery. I think there is a comment. Yeah. Jenny says had to click the link. Thank you for a beautiful call. See you next week and back in colder climate. Thanks. Yay. Enjoy every second of your sailing. And thank you, everyone. Thank you for exploring. Thank you.