This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Hey, we still have a couple of people joining, but while they are joining, would anyone like to give us a start off today? For fun, for joy, for experimenting, for seeing how it comes through you? No takers? I actually met someone in the shops who sometimes watches us online. I mean, he doesn't really join the group, but he watches on YouTube channel and he had a request. He wanted us to read fragments from Nisargadatta and discuss it. I said, well, it's not exactly a study group. It's not exactly the purpose of the meeting to be a discussion club. But, yeah, if anyone is moved to find a nice little quote and talk about it, we are here to enjoy the pointing.
So whichever shape or form it takes is fine. So long as we stick to the language that we all resonate with, which is a language predominantly used by Bob, who was simplified it in comparison to Nisargadatta. His language was much, much simpler. But Nisargadatta was his teacher. He's not exclusive. He's not excluded. He's totally in it, totally included. And a lot of pointers Bob would bring up exactly quoting verbatim, word to word, just like Nisargadatta pointed them. And Yvonne, would you like to start us off? Yes. The beautiful quote, which we have often quoted is maybe a nice to start with. Does love act deliberately?
That one. Yeah. And Nisargadatta says, yes and no. Life is love and love is life. What keeps the body together but love? What is desire but the love of the self? And what is fear but the urge to protect? And what is knowledge but the love of truth? The means and forms may be wrong, but the motive behind is always love, love of the me and the mine. The me and the mind may be wrong, but the motive behind is always love, love of the me and the mine. The me and the mind may be wrong, but the motive behind is always love, love of the me and the mine.
The me and the mind may be wrong, but the motive behind is always love, love of the me and the mine. The me and the mind may be wrong, but the motive behind is always love, love of the me and the mine. The me and the mind may be small or may explode and embrace the universe, but love remains. Yeah, wow. Wow, that's probably my favorite or one of the few favorites. Yes, mine too. Yeah, incredibly loaded, isn't it? Would you like to start unpacking it? Does love act deliberately? Yes and no. Yeah, love is as it is. It doesn't act like, yeah, it's all spontaneous.
You cannot say anything about it. So does it act deliberately? Yeah, you could say yes when it goes according to the plan you wanted it, but there is no plan and it's all spontaneous. And it keeps the body calm. It keeps everything together because there is nothing but love. It's the energy that keeps everything together. Also the body, when you take the energy off, the body cannot exist anymore. And what is desire but the love of the self. Yeah, that's the one real desire to be the self because you are the self. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the one that you desire for because you are already whole and complete.
And yeah, what do you long for when you are already whole and complete? There is nothing like it. It's just everything already whole and complete as it is. So what do you long for? Yeah. Yeah. You could say, yeah, I long for a nice vacation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah yeah. Take the time, take yourself with you. And I am on a vacation right now, but I only replaced my body to another place, but I am always here now. And it's always as it is and I am at the sea right now and I love the sea. And I am always here and there's nowhere else to go.
There's only my body is on a vacation. And yeah, I just ... Yeah, and the rest of the quote, What is knowledge but the love of the truth? Yeah, that's the only knowledge, to know what you are. Yeah, what knowledge do you need more? Maybe the person needs knowledge to go in a certain way or to do a certain profession, but knowledge is being, knowing. The being, the knowing and the loving to be what you really are. So there is nothing more to know really. You know that you exist and that's the point, that's the whole knowing. And then nothing lacks. The means and forms may be wrong, but the motive behind is always love.
Yeah, everything is love. Even when you... kill someone because that someone goes across your boundaries or does something that you are very upset about because you have the love for the self and you want to exist and you can do certain things that it doesn't look like love, but the motive is always love. Love can be very much hidden when you look at it with the eyes of the body, but... with the eyes of the self with the cognizing emptiness, it is always love. There is nothing else but love. And nobody chooses to do this or that. It just happens. So there's always love, nothing other than love.
There is nothing else but love. So it's very simple in that way. So love of the me and the mind. Yeah, that's also love. Of the me and the mind. I want to have rather a good life than a bad life, but everything is spontaneously arising and changing. So you cannot only have the good things. You also have the bad things. It's one and the other, not one of the other. No choice. Everything is moving and changing. And... And the me and the mind may be so... The me and the mind may be small or may explode and embrace the universe, but love remains. Yeah, when you see that there is not really a me and a mind, it's only love.
And then it's explosion because it's not bound anymore to a certain person. And when I am not really a person, then you are not a person too. There's only love. When you see through the whole show that there is no one, there is just unfolding. Yeah, one essence appearing as everything, as Henk says. Yes, that. Yeah, yeah. That's it. I think it is enough unpacked yet. But I had another nice quote of him, but I don't know if you want to expand on this one. Don't know. I wonder if anyone else would like to add something. And then keep the other one. We're going to go that way.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That was perfect. You know, the, it is a loaded quote and you could really actually just study that one and end the search with this. Because if you like, Hank says one essence experiencing and expressing appearing as everything. So that one essence, you can call it love. And then it is the one essence. If it appears as self gratification, as a pedophilia, as whatever it is, self gratification, how is it not self love? It's obviously self love. It may be causing harm, but again, we've established that in the dualistic manifestation, if there was no night, there wouldn't be day. If there was no pain, there wouldn't be pleasure.
So yes, it appears in a ways that might not completely match the ideal of a saint dictated by particular religion or particular society, but it's all inclusive. It's completely unconditional. It is so unconditional that it embraces and it envelops absolutely every manifestation, including fear of death, including desire, including longing, love longing for itself. Why? Because it gives a shit. The idea that I don't have it, that I am not it. I will get it, attain it, achieve it in the future. I will get into a supreme state, which they write in the books. That is a state of persistent ecstasy or endless pleasure. When there is no fear, no sickness, no anger, just pleasure, just pleasant emotions.
And I want this. I believe myself to be a person wanting this elevated, supreme, pleasurable state. How is that not love filtered through the mind appearing as desire, but behind the energy that gives life, to that contrived idea, to that imagination is still the same. Love is still the same life essence. So I would like to invite everyone. If you want to actually unpack any of the aspects of that quotes, any of the consequences, or perhaps try and dispute it, argue with it. Show me the manifestation that you don't feel it is the same life. Love. The same life or the same love appearing as the other.
And debunk it. Like, you know, the suffering, psychological suffering, fear of aging, fear of loss, grief, guilt, remorse, all that. We could actually unpack every single expression and bring it back to that one essence. And now, oh, Hank, would you like to jump in? I can't hear you. For whatever reason. Is it just me or does anyone else hear Hank? I don't hear anything too. No, Hank, you may need to plug the headphones or do something maybe or join us via mobile phone or laptop, something else because it didn't. Unfortunately, it didn't. It didn't work. We'd love to hear you, but right now we can't.
So try different device, Hank. Maybe click that Zoom link on different device. Now you are muted, but you were unmuted and was we still couldn't hear. We still couldn't hear a word. Yeah, just just join from a different device. Maybe that will be easier. And I wonder, would anyone else like to elaborate a little bit? On that one? Because it's such a is such a beautiful potent quote. And yes, the answer, you know, that he gave to the question on love the answer, which is yes and no, both and neither all at once. Does it act deliberately? Is it conscious? When the love of being shows up as the defense mechanism, as fight or flight trauma response, is it acting deliberately to preserve life?
Or is it completely spontaneous? Is it completely programmed? Yes and no and both and neither. Even approaching the topic of that one essence using the duality of mind. Yes or no. Up and down, black and white doesn't really make much sense is the wrong tool for a job. But as close as the mind can get, to that realization is neither and both. You know, certain love of being does it actually is it premeditated? And even this premeditated in which way? What does even acting deliberately mean? Is it an entity in in contradiction or in communion or in relationship? To the world or to myself or to anything else?
Can it even be in any sort of a relationship if it is one with everything? If it is an everything? And yet we can see that movement. So is that movement in stillness? Is that flow of energy appearing as the universe appearing as a dream? Is it deliberate or is it spontaneous or is it boss or is it neither? And I can see you, Cornelius, you on and I can see also Hank joining from another device. I'm sorry. Can you repeat the quote? I missed it. Oh, okay. Yvonne, could you read it again? Yes. Does love act deliberately? Yes and no. Life is love and love is life.
What keeps the body together but love? What is desire but love of the self? What is fear but the urge to protect? And what is knowledge? But the love of truth, the means and forms may be wrong, but the motive behind is always love. Love of the me and the mine. The me and the mine may be small or may explode and embrace the universe. But love remains. Thank you. Cornelius, would you like to build up on it or dispute it or show examples or elaborate or simplify or say anything to it? Or later? Well, I can't dispute it, but there seems to be a tendency here to jump over all the words and just go, well, a pile of shit and a pile of gold are the same because they appear in consciousness as whatever they are.
So, um, um, thank you. Um, hell and heaven are the same as they appear in consciousness. There's no difference. It's just stuff. It's just the appearance. So, yeah, it's ultimately is it like love that makes it all manifest? I don't know. Is it love that makes the apparent me be interested in any of it? Perhaps initially, I don't know, but whatever we say, as Yvonne said, whatever, whatever we can name, it's love. The love of being the, the love of naked children, the love of gore and blood and darkness. The love of a sunny day. The love of money to buy cool stuff. Um, the love of peace and quiet.
The love of going out to rock and roll and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, going out to rock and drink all night. Um, it's all just, it all just what it is. It's all just what it is. There's no, there's no difference to the cognizing emptiness. That's what I'd say. Yeah, absolutely. Can't argue with that. You know, like the word love, if you only have one, it doesn't even need the word, but love is as good as any love of being everything loves to be, including grief, pain, and the cow shit is like is there, or is it really is appearing to be that's good enough is experienced.
And Yvonne says all the same and different at the same time. Yep. And we have Hank, Hank try, uh, see if we can hear you. You've got to ask her. unmute hello yeah yes yes we can hear you wonderful yeah i'm not using my mobile phone um i wanted to say a little bit already uh what was i saying yeah the thing is that you know love is um yeah i have to say um it can expect the essence of love you know love the one essence one essence is appearing as everything but the difficulty that you know is of course that you know the when it when it is um when it is like uh how to say before um misformed this formed or it's going in in a way that that you know it causes a lot of suffering and pain um like what we see in uh on the in the world also the the wars you know and all the all the suffering caused by by you know by miss misunderstanding or by dictators or like trump or whatever um you know then then then it's that is hard to hard to uh to reconcile that ultimately maybe it may be the same but it's it is something that you know the the essence is maybe love but the result is yeah very destructive and love is something that should be um you know i have to say uh positive or yeah i have to say it should be associated with happiness you know um so is it actually the same love you know when we talk about one one essence like electricity does electricity you know electricity can be used to warm your house or to burn it so it is neither positive nor negative see that is why the the love as a word is questionable because and i love the way bob was pointing out to it he says oh the way we think about love is oh i love my wife but the beach refused me this morning so i hate her love hate opposites this is not unconditional love this is conditioned pleasure called love is pleasant when people are kind to each other it's pleasant when people assist each other it's pleasant when people sacrifice ants mosquitoes and other forms of life we don't give a about that because we only love humans we love ourselves we identify as humans and we call love what pleases us and what doesn't please us we call something else than love that is not what nisargadatta is pointing to nisargadatta is talking about non-duality about that which is beyond good and bad beyond pleasure and pain beyond the love that is associated with kindness and it's an opposite to hatred is opposite this love does not have the opposite this is love of being including love of being at war love of experiencing nightmare being love of thunderstorm as much as the sunny day this is unconditional love not only that love which gives me pleasure and my enemies pain in non-duality context this is not love this is a joke this is a blasphemy to call love something that pleases me and doesn't please me is love that i don't like that's not love unconditional love is the love that embraces day and night winter and summer pleasure and pain joy and sadness guilt and pride and all of it and yes in the human dream in the experience of life on earth there is aging there is sickness there is loss there is shame there is grief there is identity there is preference for pleasure all of that and love of being allows all of it unconditionally and the preference of course for the world to be at peace you know imagine the preference imagine the world was at peace for over for a century what peace is that there's only a peace in the small definition of the human race that doesn't apply to polar bears that were pushed away from their inhabitants so that humans can take over what sort of peace is that there is you know there is a peace that passes all understanding it passes the mind that is what we talk about the peace in which mind says i like this i don't like this i don't mind the the fish being exploited.
I don't mind the animals being tortured, but I want children to be safe. That's not love. That's not peace. That's that self obsession because I am human. I'm superior. I want humans to be okay. I don't give a shit about anyone else. That's not love. That's not peace. What non duality is bringing into the table is the love and the peace that is beyond divisions that allows everything equally allows the suffering to without suffering. There's no compassion. And there is no joy and there is no liberation and there is no freedom. There is a greater wisdom in the way the universe organizes itself in that polarity.
So the love of being can actually be reflected can be acknowledged can be experienced as ah. Yeah. There is an existence and it is yes, sometimes it's cold. Sometimes it's warm. If there was no existence, there would be no cold and no warm. There will be no discomfort and no comfort. But yeah, there is existence. There is all of it. With the individual, I think the individual person is not is no longer doesn't really exist. You know, we as individuals, I mean, we if we just surrender to nature or we have we arrive at some kind of survival of the fittest, you know, like that, like Darwin already, not even that not even even closer, even simpler, even simpler.
We don't all I don't count, you know, it's only the whole planet that counts. That's contriving. That's believing. That's not even a belief. How about laying down all the concepts? Okay, I as individual, I don't matter. Or I as individual, I have to surrender for a greater good or I ask, and all those philosophies just lay them down and say, I don't know. No concept, no idea. No philosophy. This moment, no past, no future. No concept of it should be different. It could be different. It would be different only if if Trump wasn't in power, this would be blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, endless, endless mind stuff.
Simpler than that prior than that is this luminous existence is the presence of consciousness without which no politics are possible. No religions. No suffering. No pain. No longing for love. No longing for peace could even exist. So this is closer to your heart than the most elevated ideals about equality and peace and love and connection and closer is first without it. Those ideals couldn't even exist. Couldn't even be entertained. That's what we are pointing to. That is prior to thinking and is beating your heart is already here and in it. Everything is included, but the stories are not more important than the miraculousness of the consciousness of the presence.
The stories are just the shadows. They are shadow pictures. They are pictures on the walls. While the fire of aliveness is first is here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. And Yvonne says difficult is a concept too, but often look again, love of trauma or ADHD all included. Yes. Yes. Back off and look again. Just step, step out of that movie of that drama and see the greater picture. You know, they say sometimes I think about what Gita is talking about having the helicopter view look from the bird's eye over the whole battlefield. See how everything good and bad, pleasant and painful is happening because you are is happening in consciousness.
Because you think, I mean, because you exist, you can imagine those things. You can remember those things. You can project those things. So the love of being appearing as the pure consciousness. And then of course, you know, something appears on that screen and, and what appears on that screen may be unpleasant. According to the character. Yeah. Yeah. What's the screen that appears on the screen? You know, you watch the movie and, and the character is being chased by the beast or the character is looking and judging other characters or the world or the nature. That is all the shadow picture. That is all the content, the appearance on the screen.
And it's only there because the love of being appearing as life itself is already present. And then expectations may show up that. Okay. So if everything is love, there should be no pain, no anger, no old age, no fear. What is this? What is this? And when Yvonne was quoting Nisargadatta, he said it beautifully. What is the fear of dying? What is the envy? What is the anger? If not another way, love appears. If the, if the love that life essence, that energy, that raw aliveness is appearing in the scene when someone just slapped me in the face or offended me and it shows up as what is it?
If not the protection, which is love of being, which is loving care, it couldn't have shown up if someone didn't offend me or slapped me in the face. So it's still is that, that, that love of being appearing as other or fear. Would I give a shit about being killed or being tortured or being humiliated? If there was no care, if there was no love of being, if there was no loving care. So all those polarities only appear because the aliveness, the love of being is here. If that love of being is here. Okay. And so especially if you don't want to Cabrera to have the, of the material, the material love of being is the final desire.
You fall into this limit and get caught up in the words. Like many love lovers. They say they want something zero. And one might have reason for zeggen that. So, but instead of if, if stop being is compromised, and it was beautiful when you Sir good this was beautiful and said we've become out in that quote. Okay. And when. he's being us. He why wasn't satisfied? Combimied with, for example, because like couple of some suggestions. Yeah. I want that imagined state of supreme pleasure, of supreme ecstasy, bliss, cosmic union or joining. Even that is love filtered through that lens of mind, lens of perception, which basically divides the world that I don't give a shit about all of you.
I'm only preoccupied with me. This is what mind is. So I only want this for me. I don't care about, you know, I want a cosmic union because it's going to be pleasant for me. Of course, of course, it justifies it in more poetic words. It says, no, my heart is swelling with the love and longing for God and the respite and whatever the words. But generally, the rejection of this moment as it shows up right now. And trying to. Exchange that unborn Buddha mind that miraculousness overlooking it and exchanging it for the imagined better now. Imagined enlightened state. Is still included. It is still a love of being just filtered through that bio computer, which translates it to.
The divided. Self preoccupation. You know, mind itself is the device which basically manipulates the whole environment to take the advantage for itself to preserve itself. Itself meaning the vehicle, the vessel. It's like, you know, you have a car and you go for this to the supermarket and you are praying to the to the parking ferry to get the good spot. Oh, there is a good spot. Someone else is also going for that spot. I'm going to be first. I'm going to go faster. For me. That's how the machine works. It is nothing good or bad about it. If you look at the animals, survival of the fetus, like you said, Hank, no one does it.
And yet the fetus animal will be the animal which will find the partner, the peacock with the most beautiful feathers. The biggest tail. That's the one that is going to win the race. Unfair. Well, it is what it is. And it is the love of being. It's beautifully simple and elegant. If you actually see what that quotes that that that beautiful few lines of texts bring back, how it collapsed the whole mind with all its dualities to one. Simple. Original cause. Being the love of being the whole survival, love of being the fear, love for protection. The seeking for wisdom, love for knowledge or love for completeness is always love.
Just known directly without translating it through that through that lens of the mind. Is just this doesn't need words. It's just. Recognized directly. Is just appreciated as this. Wow. Mystery. Nothing to say about it. You could write a hymn or poetry or paint the painting, but it doesn't need anything. It's just this moment ever fresh. All included. If the images seeing sounds, taste, smells, whatever the content is appearing in it. It's included. It's. It's here. including the imagination that's included too and desires and fears and all of it so pointing out to that direct knowing Blazhenka would you like to unmute yeah just a quick one um you know what came there is neither good or bad just the thinking makes it so there you go just what's appearing yeah and the body will do but what it will do I just got bitten by mosquito if I found it I would smash it um because I don't like being bitten by them but if it was any other bug I probably took it outside but mosquito no first I can't take it outside yeah that's it that's just the reaction of the of the body it is what it is but if I would start thinking about it oh yeah it would be oh that's wrong thing to do that's the right thing to do that could be this it could be that but I have another quote that I um from this that I just said yesterday so see do you want do you want me to read it go for it so it was one of uh from his book prior to consciousness um so the question was am I to identify myself with consciousness and the answer was what is this you other than consciousness are they too there is no entity who can do anything in the world there is no entity who can do any spiritual search if there is no entity there there is no bondage there is no liberation just understand this there is nothing to be done whatever I am telling you hear it and let it go before you acquire this body and this sense of presence tell me what have you done there is no entity who can do any spiritual search if there is no entity no bondage and no liberation soul mind or ego are just mere words They are no entities of any kind.
Consciousness is the only truth. Soul and God are only mental conceptions. Yeah. Yeah. It's very simple, very beautiful. Yeah, that's it. And the mind goes like, no, it must be something. It must be more. I need to do something. Just protecting what it is. Yeah. Just perfect as it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. It's a bit worthy, but it's beautiful. It just shows up that in that oneness, mind can design so many different labels. You know, it's the God, it's the soul, it's this, it's entity, it's doing, it's not the blah, blah. But hey, it's just this. It's just this one. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
And I think Yvonne has another quote also, but I would like Dino, would you like to unmute and contribute and read the text so I don't have to look for glasses? Well, Jenny says, such a joy to bathe in the passion and clarity of your words, Kat, while sitting on a beautiful sailboat in the Mediterranean, where I have been both an observer and an actor in the movie of life, where the mind is the cloud that covers the sun of life and the peace that is beyond understanding when letting be what is as is, people, weather and all, love. Wow. Wow. You one lucky beloved of the spirit to have those adventures.
Not that any other now in any other form is less than perfect, but yeah. Wow. Beautiful. Good on you. How poetically said. I'm going to just butt in quickly. Oh yeah. Wow. Right now, not enough wind, not enough wind to be on sail only, but here we go. And hang on, just sailboat in the distance and the island. Wow. Whoops. And I thought I've just wanted to. At least come on and say hi. And that you've been with me in my heart during this whole trip. And I've been thinking so much of all of you and then it goes Tuesdays and Thursdays, but I'm happy, happy that I can bring it with me and that I survive without twice a week.
Yeah. Yeah. Yup. Twice a week doses. That what shall I say? That well, you know what I mean. Yeah. That it enlightened and then shine and everything. Wow. The big thing is just to remind myself of to let everything be like Bob used to say, I'm altered, I'm modified, I'm change. Yeah. Yeah. And to egalize kind of having that change of movement and own a little bit too one and chain. And that is been. Yeah. And to know that also to allow whatever moves within the human self, if there's sadness, if there's joy, if there's frustration, not to judge, but to just to let that.
Like the wind and the waves, like change, like the wind and the waves, like I cannot control those, I cannot control anything else either. And that's what I wanted to share. And I don't know how long I will be have still connection, but I just wanted to at least say, say hi to you all. Big love. Wow. Thank you. This is beautiful. And wow. What an incredible pointing, you know, the sky above you, the space, the water, the clouds. The sunlight of a spirit, everything. It's just. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Everything's the pointer. And literally everything. Yeah, everything. Yeah. Everything is a pointer. And you know, it has been rain.
It has been cloudy. We've had thunderstorms. It has been the whole, you know, shebang. And just to be reminded of that, we can not do anything about it. It just is as is. As long as we have the energy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As long as it is as it is. Yeah. And then it changes. So, yeah. So now I go off with my camera again and I just send much love to all. Oh, wow. And I'll just say how precious it is, you know, that you are in such paradise on such incredible adventure and you still show up here and share that joy with us.
That's really beautiful. Oh, thank you. No, I so wanted to, but the timing has been so. Hasn't really been. It hasn't been. It hasn't worked so far. And now I, I changed being the ship's cook from today and was it yesterday. So therefore I could join you. Wow. So big love. Thank you. Wow. Yeah. Okay. That is. Oh, sorry. I have to find soon again. Okay. Bye. Bye. Bye. Okay. So I wonder, Yvonne, would you like to get your other quote or anyone else would like to elaborate on anything that was brought up up until now? Are you on Yvonne? Yes. The ordinary man is afraid to die because he is afraid of change.
Dajani is not afraid because his mind is dead already. There is no change in it and no death. death appears to be a change in time and space where there is neither time nor space how can there be death the yanni is already dead to name and shape yeah yeah and it is very often those conversations and the asked question answers conversation with the sages you know there is a presumed division that i am jnani and i know and you are not you gotta learn you gotta get there you gotta understand it you gotta you know and then in the conversation i tell you how i feel and you see how you make yourself fake it till you make it even using the words i'm jnani and you are not are well they're pointers yeah but yeah they're just words yeah but but yeah he has to use the words to make this understood to make it clear what he meant so what is jnani in this context what is it it is not the person in on a brown skin little guy who has realized what you have not no because that person is gonna die is dead so it is not he wasn't talking about nisargadatta body mind about this guy called born as whatever his name was maruti or something it wasn't that that he calls njani it was something that doesn't i wasn't born and doesn't die what wasn't born and doesn't die not the body the body is dead died of cancer not the mind the mind is inactive right now doesn't speak so the person is dead and the body is dead and the body is dead but what thing does that mean that means that he is the other way around right now i am not walking with that body online i am hearing something i haven't heard the testing and still speaking but how can i speak literally how is that how does that mean that's okay for this person what if maybe i'm broken and totally broken i could say like nobody völlig brain has already removed you that person has like you know its Text vitayl i mean we have the body and we change it and from that body what correctly we change it what we change what go a little bit further or voice directly out if you cannot have understanding you cannot have understanding and this is where we began to come together because there are some things that we are before gerade schola dating between the time now and since they settled here are some things that we put in there edia reason is yeah knowing or whatever is the translation of it but when you say knowing does it mean it is me knowing or is just knowing so it really points out to that space like pure clear luminous awareness that have never been born that is pure potentiality that's not gonna die it's already dead it's not even alive what's alive what comes into existence and goes out of the existence is not it and now looking at your own direct experience you refer to what is it in right here right now that is coming and going that is appearing and disappearing the thoughts coming and going the body changing all the time but what is there prior to the body changing changing prior to the thoughts feelings emotions expressions perceptions concepts past future what is it that is there always here always present never born never dies is that afraid of dying is that preoccupied with anything does that have the preference for particular expression of love to be up to be arising because if it is that's another appearance well is it here that is always here is already free timeless spaceless bodiless mindless pure knowing pure being without any shape and form prior to giving itself a shape and a form prior to encapsulating itself in a concept putting itself in a cage of concept i am this anyone any insights any pointers any elaborations you know those those those words those ideas cornelli's you on you said cosmic union before as though that was something to strive for that's kind of funny like as if there could be anything other than cosmic union outside of that the other thing was um i love that idea that there's no one to do anything nothing can be done there's nobody that can change anything or make anything and that your idea of of you as being a person is a bunch of concepts and as we're often told that the thought's not the thing like the water's not you can't the the word you can't drink the word and you can't um fire the word fire can't burn you blah blah all that the word person can't do anything that it becomes um apparently a habit it seems uh i can't use the joining words because they relate to some sort of passage of time and if i'm to speak truly clearly there's nowhere to go because it's now and that's the whole point that's the whole point it's difficult to um say that but it's really the whole point that the attention to the substratum the what the the cognizing emptiness the rigpa it's that's it like everything else is fluff everything else is birds flying past and movies projected onto clouds that don't last until i'm not this is where this is where it gets hard to say it's like okay until i'm not distracted by what i think is real until i'm not distracted by what i think is real then i'm still concerned with what is not real that the real is just this just now and it doesn't move and time doesn't pass it doesn't go anywhere nothing's changing and it's just going on and it's changing it's just now it seems um kind of overblown and pompous to claim that but that's that's actually the direct experience and every time you check well there it is um yeah uh and it's all unfolding automatically as bob said oh it's all on autopilot and that's that seems to be a concept that's hard to wrap the busy mind around uh that still say oh come on but i'm sort of responsible for that so well no you're not because there's no you and there's no responsibility and there's no passing time and nothing's happening um and from like you the bird's eye view of the battlefield that um if anything's and you get a view of it it's all kind of taking care of itself automatically even the total extermination of the human creatures in this particular story that we seem to share like the consensus reality uh if they're causing too much damage the the planet will sort of like snuff them out or they snuff themselves out uh and that'll be the end of it for another four and a half billion years then um when you finally get your brain back in place and if it needs attention more, then that would be the end of the 4.5 billion years of the planet.
years. Is it all maybe it all just all grows back. Nice, quiet jungle forest kind of stuff without us and our machines and factories and making so much noise. Yeah, I like what you said is it will be difficult to quote but I really liked it until I'm no longer distracted by what I'm distracted by. Then of course, yes, the illusion holds the grip. That's Yeah. But there is always underlying something registering the distractions that is completely free that is registering that is knowing that is completely free and Yvonne you are on. Yes, that Nisargadatta is talking about the Jani's mind is dead already. Yeah, I like that.
That's a mind who is always talking in a pairs of opposites. And it's never satisfied with anything. And says always blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So and that mind is quiet. And it just does his thing when it needs to. And not only talks all the time, then then there's the peace beyond all understanding. Because then yeah, then it's then that is like then that is it. Then you are dead. And without all the blah, blah, blah, blah, in between, you can be dead, or you can recognize it. Yeah. Yeah, I like that the mind that is already dead. Yes, I like that too.
From that quote, I only have those two quotes on my mobile in a print. Those two I like but the mind is dead already. I like this. Yes. Because that seems to be the hard thing to be quiet. Yeah, yeah. And it and it, it seems to it kind of is believed that it is necessary. But if you realize that you are not your mind, then whether the mind is singing the song, or whether the mind is commenting, or whether the mind is doing whatever, it is already dead. It borrows the energy that electricity that makes that computer run. But the computer is no not alive at all.
It is dead. And what Jeff suggests is that as he says, I cannot $4 on the borrowed power, the power that is borrowed from that omnipotence. And then so it says okay, Dana is the is the great wisdom and nanny is that which realized the great wisdom which realized that the mind is dead. So what kind of stops you from realizing that the mind is dead and therefore right now and nanny is just a label that differentiate that who realized that the the body mind in which that wisdom has been realized it's like stepping in your own shadow yeah yeah realizing that the mind is dead that the mind is just a mechanical behavior pattern is just a software narrating doing whatever this whatever it is designed to do it doesn't have you know the difference again between someone believing to be the mind i am my mind this is who i am i am my most cherished values i am my personality this is my life don't kill me this is the most precious thing this is who i am this is what i am that belief appears as reality it feels real same as if i believe in a fairy tooth fairy or or in jesus that is the reality jesus is here he's whispering to my ear or the monster under the bed it appears real does it really make it real the belief and what is the difference really you know like when there is a belief arising through this body mind that the earth is real it is that you are here deliberately are you still here well actually it is so incredible that on the planet important statement hope is very hard right people can stand you can stand name i don't care i don't care that he comes or He comes you don't care if you don't have faith in me and something like thatермong if you don't you're relievedana i believe you're re kardeşim is that no the experience will follow up and that would be a blessing it are you still here when the mind is paused for a microsecond because if you are then the natural realization is that the mind appears in you mind appears because of you and as we all may know a little baby is born without that mind and it's a life is conscious and the mind comes slowly slowly being programmed in a little by little and that mind is keep being programmed little by little traumas got resolved or got strengthened Yvonne do you have the hand up because you wanted to add something or because you didn't put the hand down I wonder okay I'm trying to eat as a cat I have lunch I'm trying to eat between but I didn't say I didn't put it down sorry okay bon appetit Cornelius you along the same lines death to speak of death the mind is dead for the Niani the mind is dead I was reading some Ramana Maharshi and he speaks of the the Niani the Niani is like a a the Niani is like a the Niani is like a the Niani is like a when we go to sleep it's it's undeniable that we're still alive but the the circus isn't happening there's no person there's no world in sleep and so he he speaks of the Niani as as being like wakeful sleep that that is still alive and walking around and stuff still going on but to him it's like you have to let go of all that to actually fall asleep when you fall asleep all that falls away if you try and force yourself well apart from having an anesthetic but if you try and force yourself to go to sleep often you won't be able to go to sleep is this like um uh you you'll never arrive at enlightenment while you're still arriving for enlightenment because the actual search for enlightenment stops you from seeing that right now this is where it's at this is it um that you fall asleep it's quite a gentle thing to just let the world well the story that says um um the mother has a baby and she adores this thing more than anything else in the whole world and she would kill to protect it but every single night she forgets all about it and falls asleep like I really like this idea like but just that you can just forget all about Cornelius and that whole that whole spiel of Cornelius is just a spiel that there's nothing to it there's no substance to it just this this this thing going on now and like it can be described and labeled and categorized as some sort of stuff but where's it happening so who's it happening to it's just like this this is it and Yvonne's eating her lunch and Jenny's on a boat somewhere and you guys are in Melbourne and apparently this is France it looks just like a little room okay I just fell off the boat so yeah sleep seems to be the best thing that's going on in the world and I think that's a good thing to do and I think that's a good thing to do and I think that's a more gentle way of oh that's that's what he was saying we give the primacy to the to the waking state in these states waking dreaming and deep sleep we give primacy to waking as I during the day that's the important bit where you're actually we were actually awake there's where the stuff's going on he says what if what if the most important part of your life is actually when you sleep that's kind of like closer to reality than going to work and being busy and relating to people and talking and doing all the stuff we apparently fill our days with that it's actually more like just being sort of comfortably floating in darkness with nothing going on and nobody telling you any stories occasionally a dream floats past but it's not very substantial and it's gone pretty quickly but yeah okay yeah yeah coming back to the natural state out of being immersed in the projection in your immersed in the in the entertainment system the story of me and my relationship with the world and my enemies and my friends and my ambitions and my desires and my future and my death and my sicknesses wow and then all gone back into the eternity of nothingness because there is no time time is mind when the mind is offline there is no time yeah that's a lovely reminder every night when you go to sleep the computer goes offline it goes into a sleep mode and yet there is an existence just unacknowledged there is nothing wrong there is no one who is afraid of going to sleep like the mind is afraid of dying dies every night every single night and it loves it especially if people have insomnia you know having one good night's sleep or they have a partners who snoring which is the same almost anyway it's it's a lovely reminder that it's nothing wrong falling asleep getting the mind offline forgetting about the pain the chronic illness the the unpaid bills the the dramas the traumas the 10 000 things that are projected on the screen of awareness as my story my problems humanity problems suffering people in in dying in the concentration camps the extinction of the of the creatures all of that offline and nothing is wrong i'm having a card of a beautiful sailing just looking at me from the box of the ocean and the sunset and that one talks in coincidentally though because that's another quote that bob used to love of nisargadatta the concept of karma it talks about the concept concept of karma recognize that karma always happening to me always about me cause and effect points out that effect being psychological suffering is caused by belief in a separate me without belief in a reference point all karma is resolved if there is no me whose karma the karmic deaths and all the uh fear of needing seven lifetimes to pay off my bad karma and all the consoling explanation that oh yes i'm marrying the same you know woman who is abusive or whatever because i have a karma or karma being a habit you know i had a bad childhood therefore i'm repeating the same karma where is it where is the conditioning where is karma if there is no reference point that it would be applied to again it's not entirely unhelpful concept in many schools of thoughts and teachings but we are pointing beyond the concepts and cornelius you want to unmute karma story right yeah um someone asked ramana again um they said so when i when i awaken will all my karma be resolved even the you know the different types of karma like the karma you brought with you the karma that you're going through now and the karma that you're accruing for the future when i get enlightened will all that karma be gone and rama said he told the story of if there's a man and he's got three wives when he dies all the wives are widows it's not like just the first wife is a widow and the other two are still sort of being his wife i thought that was a good one because when as you said when there's no reference point when there's no sacred thought of me when that's not there anymore well then oh that blob of nothingness didn't accrue any apparent karma so that was my little story there you go yeah that's that that settles it and dino would you like to read what we haven't read and and summarize maybe or add something contribute something you know blazhenka said earlier uh always wanting what is not and and ivan just added before um nothing wrong by killing the partner if it happens you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you like what you're saying like you you eliminate the the fictional cause which is me and then what's the effect where's the effect there's no this is the the fictional causer causation causing causing entity like in it that's fictitious so what effect can there be yeah hmm And they may still be, you know, if you look at the machine, you know, the karma of a car.
If you drive over a nail and the tire is broken, we could call it karma, you know, the nail and the tire. But again, is it really? If you weren't driving around there, there would be no karma. If there was no road there, there would be no karma. If you didn't have a car, there would be no karma. If the sun wasn't shining, there would be no karma. If there was an ice age, there would be no karma. So is it really a singular cause, singular effect, sort of a dynamic? Never. The only exception is if that is related to a me, which doesn't have any existence if you look.
But the cause and effect for the machine. Yes. If you drive over the mat. The nail, the consequences are they cause and effect called karma that this is a cause and this is effect. And if I can't drive, I'll keep my car scratched. And that's the karma. Not really. That pointer is largely overused to actually debunk all statements of Advaita Vedanta. What do you mean there is no karma? Of course there is cause and effect. Everything is cause and effect. It's like in the modern universe. The science, the medicine is the cause and effect is finding the symptom and responding with the remedy. This is not exactly where the karma lodges for the karma.
There has to be singular cause and singular effect. There's no such thing in the universe, which is one fabric. There is not two. The cause and effect are one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just like the 10,000 things that bring them together. And I think... Well, Yvonne sums it up as well by cause and effect is time, which does not exist. There you go. Yeah. Yes. I sometimes hear the discussions and the metaphors like, what do you mean there's no cause and effect? If I break the leg yesterday and today I'm in plaster, that's the plaster is the effect of breaking a leg.
No. Plaster is the effect of the whole entire universe. Again, if you didn't have the leg, there could be no plaster. So it's not just breaking it. It's the rest of the universe contributing to it also. Is the inseparability of the whole appearance, interdependence of the whole appearance, everything co-arising. Being one in essence. Yeah. Being one in essence and appearing as the 10,000 things. I think there's more comments coming. Yes. And the plaster can be out of stock. Yeah. Yeah. But those are all, all those ideas are beautiful expressions of that one essence, which is love of being, and they all have its place and they all may be helpful or bringing some relief at some point or the other.
You know, if you imagine 150 years ago, you know, still today, you know, you're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. And that just has taken us to this stage. You know, where we are now. I think it's getting better. Yeah. We're getting better. It's getting better. Yeah. Well, at some point, you know, it's just a matter of time. This is slowly. It's just a matter of time. Yeah. It's, like, it's, it's rather that change. We have the beginning of change. We live in the present, but we're just beginning to see it. I don't know if I can have that at the moment.
I do. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it's tradition, but I don't, you know, it's just the tradition that we have, but like, even what's happening now, you know, in this modern day, you know, so much that we can't... in this good place where God has plenty of rooms or mansions, you know, that sort of ideas. They have their place within the dream for the dream characters. And they are expression of that same one light or one love of being. And they are to be appreciated. But if you see them for what they are, they can be appreciated even deeper. You see the love behind it.
You see that warmth and consolation that it brings, the love behind it, rather than being a slave, a believer, a fanatic who thinks, oh, yes, I am my mind and I know this is the truth. There is a freedom in appreciation the ideas for what they are, ideas, and recognizing the life, the love behind those ideas and seeing the whole battlefield. I have another one, which is a little bit more rough weather. And it says, if the whole planet explodes to dust now, there won't be a particle missing from the totality. What a happy thought. It is always and ever the content of space. And it shows those little figurines made of a content of space and a beautiful dark sky.
And this is the content of space. And this is the content of space. And this is the content of space. And this is in my hometown in Poland. The picture was taken there. So a happy thought. Nothing's ever missing. Even if the whole planet burst explodes to dust. So all your loved ones to be met in the afterlife. All the trees that are burned or animals that are extinct. So cells of the body of the skin or the hair that fell away. Nothing's ever missing. Yes. The cat is talking to me. Nothing's ever lost because it is the energy. It can change form, but it doesn't die.
It doesn't go anywhere. And nope, we don't have anyone commenting. We have few people watching us on Facebook, but no one asks question. And was, was it, did I see you even having the hand up or was I dreaming it? I was dreaming. I think you're dreaming it because I don't see your hand. Okay. I, okay. I saw the, I just saw the yellow flash. Okay. Dino, do you have anything like summary? No, there is no hand, you know, like, like you're saying, like it's all, um, um, imagine, or, or they're all ideas like this whole manifestation is this universe and multiverses and everything is.
It's like, it's like these ideas, constructs, like, like all mental constructs, like society, morality, uh, the, the, the legal system, the like science, like, like physics and, and chemistry, biology, like they're all systems of, but they're all ideas and they're all based in, in, you know, like, and, and all of them are trying to perhaps provide the, the explanation on what this is. Um, and yet they all appear in this, this presence. So they're all, they're all like part of the same ideas that are trying to describe, um, the actuality or the reality. Um, it's, it's like, they're all fictitious, like cartoon, like little, little, um, entities trying to describe like, like a little cartoon characters trying to describe their role in, in, in the show.
Um, and yet. They're, they've been drawn, you know, they've been sketched. They're, they're, they're actually just like, like, like whimsical little ideas and all those ideas. I think Cornelius brought up the part of sleeping, you know, deep falling, falling asleep and trying to fall asleep. And I, I think it's interesting that, you know, everyone's, everyone's tried to catch the moment when they fall asleep, you know, trying to catch that moment, trying to, you can either try to resist it or fight it. Or you can do anything you like. But if you, if you notice really carefully, sleep just takes over. There's no, there's no one that has ever been able to really control that, that, that moment of sleep happening.
Sleeps, it's a really good little point of, it's like, it's like noticing the breathing, you know, and, and noticing the automation of the breathing, the automation of sleep and, and the change of state from wake to sleep. It's, it's like, and waking back up again. Yeah. And, and how that all is this, this, this incredible automatic process that no one is doing. No, no one, no one can, there's no control. There's no one to control it. And it's, it's actually just happening all itself as part of the appearance. And it's another idea. It's actually another idea. You know, and even coming to non-duality, you know, you may be coming to non-duality as, as a person watching a Zoom, listening, but all of that is an idea too.
Thinking that maybe I'll get it. Maybe this will resonate. Maybe I breathe and I relax and, and all, all, all ideas, all, all equal ideas, all part of the same appearance, appearing in this particular manner or that particular manner. But I think that the greatest, you know, the core of the, all these ideas is, is, is back to that me, myself and I business, you know? And, and. I am the center of this universe and, you know, I'm getting this or I understand that. And, and, you know, the biggest fallacy of all these ideas is not to look at all these ideas and say, oh, they're all unreal.
The looker, the one that's thinking that they, that, that they're seeing ideas is an idea themselves. And, you know, and all dream material, all appearing as ideas, all appearing as, as imagination. or projection or you can describe it in many different ways. And why does it all appear? You know, back to the very beginning was, you know, the love of being, the love of being expressing itself through all these endless ideas. And, yeah, it's quite, yeah, sometimes even the love of being is even too much. It's like it's just this thisness, just this immediate nowness in which there is nothing. Like you described at the start, Kat, there's nothing you can say about it.
There's nothing you can know about it. The knowing is the knowing that it is. That's all the knowing that really is, not a knowing of an object, but just the known fact of existence itself, aliveness itself, life itself, the life essence. But what you can say about it is ideas. Yeah, that's beautiful. And as you were describing, I actually looked at what was the next card in my box and I just saw the first word. I didn't read the whole thing because, again, just the first word as you were describing. Is the word a thing? Is the map the territory? Is the idea of what I am?
Who I am? What it is ever going to describe and encapsulate and even touch the mystery of existence? Is it going to, is any word ever going to come near the complete unexplainable radiance of presence? I think that is a... Yeah, Nivon says, it's all about nothing, but isn't it lovely? Exactly. And Bob would say, it's not exactly nothing, but it is a no-thing. So it is a lovely no-thing, no-thingness. It isn't a thing, and yet it isn't nothing. Nothing is unimaginable, it's completely incomprehensible. There is aliveness, there is this loveliness, there is this celebration, there is an existence, there is a radiant awareness of being alive, of existing.
And everybody shares that. There is no one who does not know that, yes, I am. There is existence. And because I am, all those channels of expression, the seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the touching, smelling, the dreaming, the imagining, the dramas, the problems, the traumas, all of it. Because... Because... Because... Because... Because... Because... Because of the existence. How could any description ever fit that which is beyond, that on which the descriptions are just appearing as words? How can the mystery ever be even the attempt of describing or murdering or encapsulating that no-thingness that envelops every single thing conceivable and perceivable? And yet... And yet... You know, here it is, right in front of you, to marvel, to celebrate, to appreciate.
What else? To love. To just enjoy. And Yvonne, Yvonne? Yes, that's why I wrote it with a capital N, nothing. That's why I wrote with an N with a capital, because of the nothing and not after nothing. Yes. So, that's what I meant. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's it. The no-thing. It's not a thing. And I think there is one more comment. Do you know? Can you see it? Yes. Jenny says, In the nowness there is no room for me, myself, and I. And if, of course, that too can be dissected by... And of course, that can be dissected by the mind. And she's sorry for the typos.
It's choppy on the Mediterranean, you see. Yes. And Birod says, Not a question, but a compliment. Wanted to thank someone from Poland for these made-in-Poland sesame thins lighting up our home. Bob loved them too. Yeah. You like them, Dina, as well, don't you? The sesame stuff. Oh, yes. Yes. We had them as well growing up. Yes. I think he's... Yes. I think he's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. I think they can buy them online.
Oh, yeah. I used to buy them. I used to buy them for Bob. Yeah, they're beautiful. Yvonne? I think they have them in stores. And they Polish sesame thingies. They're not entirely healthy, but they're yummy. Yeah, so I will just maybe... I'm just going to do a little bit of... finish that quote that kind of inspired what you were saying, Dino, and I was just hanging out here in front. I wasn't even looking for it. So is the word a thing? Can the word water make you wet? Can you drink it? That word? Well, clearly, obviously, that's the rhetorical question. How about the word I or me?
Is that who you are? And see that this is a loaded question. See that sense of existence, which translates as a word I or the thought me, me, myself and I. See if that comes even close to touching the mystery of consciousness. It's a joke, isn't it? To even try and call it and say I. And what is that I? What is behind it? What does it represent? Does it represent the line of concepts and mental projections that couldn't even be there if that machine, if the power was off, if that was a corpse, it couldn't even be there. The idea that I'm unworthy, or I'm worthy, or I'm whatever.
It couldn't even be here if not for that mystery. I think there is a comment. Yeah, Jenny says, I had to click the link. Well, thank you for a beautiful call. See you next week and back in Colder Climate. Thanks, Jenny. Yay. Enjoy every second of your sailing. And thank you, everyone. Thank you for exploring. Thank you.